Eli Manning said yesterday on “The Michael Kay Show” that he’s in the same class as a quarterback as Tom Brady. Kay, who admitted that he was putting Eli on the spot, began by asking him point blank if he was “an elite, top 5 or 10 quarterback in the league.” Eli said without hesitation that he was. When asked if he then put himself in the same class as Tom Brady, he responded, “I consider myself in that class. And Tom Brady is a great quarterback, he’s a great player and what you’ve seen with him is he’s gotten better every year. He started off winning championships and I think he’s a better quarterback now than what he was, in all honesty, when he was winning those championships.”
Eli, with no due respect, I’m laughing in your face.
First off, I find it very funny that he was asked if he’s in Tom Brady’s class, not Peyton Manning’s class. Second of all, all of you New York Giants fans and Eli Manning leg-humpers just had to listen to your hero state that Tom Brady is better now than he ever was. For all the “Tom Brady hasn’t won a playoff game in 3 years” talk I’ve been hearing, Eli really just put your foot in your mouth with regards to Tom Brady not being what he once was. Third of all, I was actually going to give Eli credit for admitting in the same interview that his interceptions last season were a problem. Eli went on to say “I’m not a 25 interception quarterback, I know that. It’s going to be fixed…” Wow, some accountability from Eli-I’m-the-same-class-as-Tom-Brady, I thought. Then Eli went on to say how he didn’t think he made many bad decisions last year, at all.
Say what?
Listen Eli, there were a lot of tips, we get it. But you threw twenty-f’in-five interceptions last season. Even if 10 were tips, that’s a lot of interceptions – and they weren’t a result of bad decisions? Are you delusional? First off even the tips usually mean the ball could have been placed better – ask Tom Brady, an elite quarterback who has realized this. Second of all, if you throw 25 picks at least 10 of those at a minimum are bad decisions and are on you. Man up and accept that.
Second of all, there was grumbling last week of “Oh but Eli has more touchdowns than Tom Brady did at the same point in his career.” First of all, the only rebuttle needed in response to this assertion is the obvious one – Tom Brady had 3 rings at that point, Eli had one. But the championships aside, what makes an elite quarterback is not touchdowns or interceptions, but the ability to win games. To begin their careers Eli Manning went 60-43 – a .582 winning percentage. Tom Brady went 86-24 – a .782 winning percentage. In other words, shut your mouth Eli – you’re just making yourself looks stupid.
As if the 32 turnovers last season wasn’t enough.
Oh God…this is going to be one epic day on howigit and I have to head out the door asap. I’m looking forward to reading all the comments this evening.
BTW J-Bone….Eli’s a bum
I love you all, loyal howiGit readers.
agreed this is gonna get ugly
I can’t see how it could. Basically 2 things happened:
1) Eli said Tom Brady is better than ever
2) Bill Simmons said the only way Tom and Eli are in the same class is that they are both mammals
I’ll leave it at that.
link to bill simmons please?
yeah no link because it never happened.
Twas Grantland, but not Simmons himself. My apologies!
you gotta do your research before throwing things out there brohiem.
eli is not even a top 10 qb. In no order i would rather have VIck, Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rothleisberger, Rivers, Bradford, Cutler, Flacco and Ryan. each of these qbs is either better or has a significant upside to their game that Eli does not have. I suppose yo could argue he is in the very bottom teir of that top 10, but i don’t see it. and dont give me the “he has a ring” nonsense.
I think Bradford and Cutler are questionable, Cutler because he’s an interception machine like Eli and Bradford only because he lacks experience at this point. Otherwise, I agree in all other cases.
I would also drop Cutler and Bradford off this list, but I would also add Josh Freeman and Kyle Orton to QBs that are better than Eli.
Today is a great day.
i have bradford because of his age, cutler can be cut and replaced with freeman.
I actually skipped over Bradford because he hasn’t proved himself yet, but if you’re talking about upside and potential, then yes, I’m expecting Bradford to be a top ten QB within the next couple years
Me as well. I’m a big fan of his.
Fair.
Don’t forget, Eli has been to one whole Pro Bowl in his seven year career.
yes and the great tom brady three times
Eli never said he was better then Brady, he was very complimentary to Brady actually, if you look at what he said, instead of the ESPN headline like what seems to be the whole story most of the time around here.
Here are some individual numbers to chew on. In their first 6 years Eli had more touchdowns, yards, yards per completion, and the same amount of yards per attempt. He also did that with out the benefit of the defenses blitz scheme and protection prior to the snap.
As far as not a top ten qb you are out of your minds. You are listing people who have been in the league for 3 years and have not done anything. Vick has been out of jail for one season, and even though he had a great year had one of the statistically luckiest years ever. Joe Flacco had not done much at all and has a great defense behind him. Matt Ryan has not done anything, Josh Freeman are you kidding me, cutler is running out of welcome on his second team, yeah i really want that guy. Lets throw Alex Smith and Tim Tebow in there too
16 quarterbacks had better passer ratings then eli did last year, no quarterbacks had more interceptions then he did. he also lost 5 fumbles which puts him in a tie for 2nd most by any player last year. he is a stud
This is just about the most ridiculous argument made, and they try to make it consistently. The funny thing is, of course I wish the Pats has beat the Giants that year because I’m a Pats fan. But if the Pats did win that game, and Eli didn’t have the Super Bowl that his entire career hinges on, he probably would have been run out of New York by now. His career otherwise is defined by big passing yardage numbers followed by interceptions and choking.
do you have any stats to back up your choking claim, td vs int in the 4th qrt? comebacks in the 4th qrt? qb rating in the 4th compared to other qrts or other qbs? nope, just going off of the probably 12 games youve actually watched the giants play.
The same way i dont buy williams i know a good pitcher when i see one, i dont need stats, im not buying your bs either.
also, vick played in 4 (basically 5) less games then Eli and only had one less TD. he must have been very very lucky.
You note Joe Flacco’s great D – I’d say the Giants have had great D’s as well. You also note Vick has “one of the statistically luckiest years ever” yet you are hesitant to say Eli’s super bowl victory was incredibly lucky with the dropped interception he threw in the clutch and the David Tyree catch. It may just be me, but I’ll call a play or two lucky FAR before I call an entire season lucky.
Yes, he was complimentary of Brady. But saying he belongs in that class it just downright stupid. Brady and Peyton are all-time greats. Eli is a mediocre NFL player.
What exactly is a “statistically lucky year?” What, did Vick accidentally let go of the ball a couple of times, and it ended up in the endzone 21 times? Conversely, Eli threw the ball a bunch of times, and by some unfortunate stroke of luck, he put it in an opponent’s hands 1.5 times per game?
Lay it on Shmi.
No shmi, he had the least amount of potential interceptions turn into actual interceptions at 19.4%, the luckiest in the league; while Eli was 52.1% the 4th highest.
From KC Joyner, ESPN: If Manning’s luck gets better (and it really couldn’t get much worse than last year) and Vick’s luck gets worse (and it couldn’t have been much better), it could mean as much as a 10-15 interception swing between these two in 2011.”
That type of luck
I don’t think Eli can complain about luck.
so what your saying is that eli threw 50 balls that were potential interceptions and that vick threw 30 balls that were potential interceptions?
no that of the throwns made that hit defenders hands the defenders picked eli off 52 percent of the time. vick 19.4. Vick was more lucky then any other qb in the league last year of the defenders dropping interceptions
Youk said it best. I’d just like to add, in response to “If Eli didn’t blah blah blah:” I believe it was you who always said, “If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.”
but if you were to say that 100% of their potential picks were actually caught those would be the numbers. eli threw 50 balls that could have been picked, while vick threw 30.
how many games did vick play in last year?
yeah and you know what they say about the assumptions you have been throwing around. they make an ass out of you and me. any one can thrown around a quip.
he played in 4 (pretty much 5) less games then Eli, and had one less touchdown then him and 21 less turnovers.
how about we look at it this way; eli had 539 attempts last year and threw 50 potential interceptions good for 9.27 percent of his passes, vick 372 and 30 potential, good for 8 percent of his passes. that is one percentage point higher, and as shown earlier he was 30% more lucky.
that’s fair, i will have to agree they throw basically the same amount of potential balls that can be picked then, but it also shows that he had one less touchdown in 167 less attempts.
Foran can you please stop putting vicks running tds into his passing attempt stats. Vick only had 21 passing tds last year, not 30.
why would you not count his running TDs when you are comparing him to another player? it’s not like im adjusting his passer rating or completion percentage, interception, or potentially pickable ballshis ability to run is a huge factor in his game. All things considered in 5 less games and 167 less attempts he had one less touchdown.
How many rushing attempts did he have?
why because no one in the world puts rushing touchdowns towards qb totals, and another thing you have eli’s 5 fumbles last year as second in the league. that is not true and vick lost ten fumbles.
has anything you said today been based in fact? or have you been ace ventura talking all day?
Vick had 100 rushing attempts so basically he had 1 less touchdown in 67 less attempts. Not all that crazy. If you want to count your rushing touchdowns in passing attempts??? For some reason you have been, so you need to add his rushing attempts also.
get some noozer, so you have been counting his tds towards the totals but not the attempts?
i was comparing touchdown stats from teh position of quarterback, which eli also plays..i didnt count the attempts, so attempts aside. in 5 less games he had 1 less touchdown.
and as far as the fumbles go, nfl.com says he only lost 3. espn says he fumbled 6 times passing but doesnt say how many were lost and says he only lost one rushing.. so there is some discrepency there
with further investigation i may be wrong on the fumbles,
if you are going to count the touchdowns you have to count what it takes to get there.
this site seems to agree with me. on both vick only losing 3 fumbles and Eli having the 2nd most fumbles lost of any player (although it is a tie for second).
http://www.playerfilter.com/nfl/most-fumbles/#/g,u;fum,r;fuml,desc&s=t>f=2010&limit=180
Profootballreference.com says vick had 11 fumbles
that would be tied for 3rd with 6 people
he did have 11 fumbles, the most in the league. but he only had 3 fumbles lost which is the stat i brought to the table as i only really care about a fumble if they dont get it back.
my bottom line point is that last year Vick accounted for one less TD than Eli did and 21 less turnovers.
those are the stats.
and that was good for how many more wins?
well in games he played the entire time he was 8-3.. or a winning percentage of 72%, eli was 10-6 or a .62 winning pct..hypothetically in a 16 game season, winning 72% of your games would leave you with a record of 11-5 or 12-4 (closer to 12-4). so it would be good for 1 or 2 games..
how but that crazy hypothetical logic, no holes here. go ahead and try to argue it.
did you count his playoff loss?
i was going to but decided it wouldnt be fair because eli didnt even have a chance to lose in the playoffs last year.
He was actuay 8-4 in games he started this year. So that is a .666 which is much closer to .62 for eli. Just cuz Mr. “i kill dogs to look tough and mask my brittle self” couldn’t finish the game doesn’t mean it isn’t his loss.
if another qb took the majority of the snaps i would argue it wasnt his loss. Kinda like if a qb gets replaced after the first quarter andtheir replacement comes in and wins the game the qb that got taken out doesnt get the win.
That’s different cuz he was benches. Him being a Bitch that gets hurt every year is probably the reason they lost the game. So its his fault. There are no holes in that either.
i think both of our arguments are flawless. the only thing i can think of with less holes in them were the buckets vick used to drown his dogs.
winner. end of argument
I can’t look right now. Check to see how many times vick has had a top ten qb rating if you wouldn’t mind.
i know he did last year, so that is one more time than eli who has never been in the top 10
Touche.
Vick has played in the NFL for 8 years. He has made is through an entire season exactly 4 times. Including this year, where he only managed 12 games and was garbage down the stretch once teams figured him out, he had a passer rating over 82 a whopping ONE TIME. YEA HE IS DEFINITELY ELITE! TOP TEN! YAY!
in 6 full years eli has never missed a game, has had an 85 or better passer rating. Is 4-3 in the playoffs and won a super bowl and mvp.
Vick is 2-3 in the playoffs, where he has not won a game since 2004. So no, vick is not a better quarterback.
When I say elite, I look at it in a forward-thinking sense, i.e. Vick will be better this coming year than Eli will be. Vick’s first starting year in a throwing offense produced great numbers, as opposed to Eli’s paltry season. Interestingly enough, even though Vick spent most of his career in a non-passing offense, his career TD/Int ratio is still better than Eli’s (1.60 to 1.39), and their QB rating is exactly the same (80.2).
Plus, in the playoffs, they still have the same rating (77.6), and Vicks TD/Int ratio is still better (1.25 to 1.14).
Love the numbers.
Unfortunately for you, forward thinking assumptions don’t count towards a quarterback ranking. “I think eli will throw 43 touchdowns and bring his ints down to 11. Non way vick is bettwr.” Man that was easy.
What is your source? Plus with averages you have to take out the outliers. So vicks 1/2 with a 76 yard Td in 2009 was a fluke and a game he wasnt even the qb for. What are his td-int averages and passer rating now?
As for eli, if his “paltry” season had 31 tds, 4k yards and an 85 qb rating, i would be really scared as an eagle fan to see what an average season will be this year.
I will go 29tds and 15 ints as just an air grab of a guess.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00/gamelog/
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog/post/
My point is that Vick spent 6 years in an offense that wasn’t considered a good passing offense, and during that time Vick was considered a bad passer. And so, when you compare him to Eli, an “elite QB” with an “85 QB rating,” I’d like to point out that over their respective careers, they are the exact same in QB rating, and Vick is better in his TD/Int ratio. Why, then, do you insist that Eli is a significantly better QB?
As far as forward-thinking is concerned, Eli’s 80.2 rating has been compiled over his entire career, including the most recent in which he tossed 25 picks. But Vick, in his first year as a starter in a passing offense, put together a Pro-Bowl season that ranked him 4th in QB rating. So yes, I am predicting that Vick will be a better QB going forward.
I think that’s a good assumption.
what do you want to bet then? touchdown passes and interceptions who is hire?
higher*, i am the higher one right now.
Ive never insisted eli is a much better qb. I’m saying vick is not a much better qb. And I’ve never said eli is elite. I’m saying I go off the past. Vick had 1 year I’ve 82 qb rating. Eli has had 3. Eli also has 2 less years in the league. Let’s look at qb ratings over a career when we can compare the same data set. Also, see the weather conditions argument for vick in Atlanta as a young qb vs eli in giants stadium as a young qb.
Also, if you are looking at stats from profootball reference take out the one outlier like I said and vick is 1.00 td/int and eli is 1.14/1
And how you keep saying vick was always in a non passing offense makes no sense. Eli wasn’t in a run first most of his career? Tiki barber, then recently with Jacobs and bradshaw? That’s a passing offense compared to vicks Atlanta?
I know you’re only talking about the past, but like I said, I’m talking about the future. Vick’s ability to play in the Eagles’ offense will lead him to, once again, have a better year than Eli this year.
Vick has averaged 21.5 passes per game in his career (which includes his year in Philly) while Eli has averaged 31.7. And I recall the Falcons as being more oriented about short-yardage and checkdown passes (though I have no info to back that up). So yes, I would say Eli has been in a more pass-happy offense through his career.
Eli will make less mistakes, throw more touchdown, and have a better year. He will therefore be better than vick since vick will play worse and have worse stats. There I’m forward looking too but has no basis on facts.
Ok here is what I want Giants fans…..TD and INT predictions for your boy Eli this season. Don’t hide, let’s see them!
Do you have rushing attempts per game too? Maybe the giants offense is just better, therefore having more attempt per game.
Less mistakes, as in Eli will throw less interceptions than Vick? Have a better year, as in make more Pro-Bowls than Vick? You’re right, your prediction has no basis in facts.
And yes, the Falcons were a worse team than the Giants. I would say that Vick was a great player on a bad team, while Eli has been a mediocre player on a good team.
pro bowls dont mean shit, and if you are so sure take my bet, one on touchdowns on and interceptions. name your price
Or the giants offense is better because of eli than the falcon were because of vick. My future comments have the same fact basis as you saying vick will have a better season than eli, the only time he has in the past 6 years.
Put it in the wrong section. I’ll say 29 and 15.
ill say 32 and 16
Ha just kidding, from 2004-2006 (the three years Eli and Vick both played), the Giants had 3009 plays from scrimmage, or 62.7 plays a game. Falcons had 2990, or 62.3 plays per game. So ten pass per game differential would indicate a more pass-happy offense.
Ok J-bone, but instead let’s bet on TD/Int Ratio. I bet you Vick has a better TIR than Eli. What are the terms?
Eh- 27 and 15. They will probably run more this year.
ill let you name them
OK, if I win, you come to a Phillies game and wear Phillies gear, if you win I’ll go to a Yankees game wearing Yankees gear. Pictures and insults to be posted
I think its pretty obvious he is saying he is in the same class as Tom at this point in his career. He is saying tom had gotten better every year and he believes that he will continue to be better every year. I figured you would have a mild heart attack at this comment.
And that top 10 list that has been thrown around earlier is the biggest joke I’ve ever seen. Really? Flacco? Bradford, cutler, freeman, orton? Jesus Christ guys go get an unbiased opinion once in a while. The only one I’d argue could go either way is matt Ryan and if you would please compare for me (as Geoff I know you love to in baseball) eli’s stats in warm weather or in domes. There is a reason rivers and Ryan put up massive stats and a lot of it is cuz they play in nice weather 90% of the year.
of course my opinion is going to be biased. in reality eli may be a top 10 qb, but he is at 9 or 10, he also could be just outside at 11 or 12. it is debatable whereas no one would be able to argue at all that brady is a top 10 quarterback
i also dont think he meant he is in the same class as tom brady at this point in his career, and even if he did that is a silly statement.
Even if he meant it his winning percentage at the same point in his career is 200 points lower and he has 2 less Super Bowl wins. So no, he’s not in the same class whatsoever.
Then your opinion is picking top 10 players is irrelevant if it cannot be unbiased.
Fair statement.
sure it can. everyone’s bias comes into play otherwise there would be a national consensus on who the best 10 quarterbacks are. But some people value certain stats over others and when it is unclear between 2 players bias definitely comes into play for everyone
No because you are just naming anyone close to the top 10 and saying they belong over him and your taking different reasons for each. Look at them all objectively and use the total package to rank each.
fine i will look at the total package and be objective as possible by just using statistics and take into account each players Completion Percentage, Average Yards Per Attempt, Percentage of Touchdown Passes, and Percentage of Interceptions.
Last year there were 16 quarterbacks better then Eli Manning and every player i mentioned besides bradford is on that list.
when you dont count touchdowns or yards for a qb you are obviously looking at all stats and picking the ones that work for you.
Best pitchers, lets look at foul balls hit, strike out rate, miles per hour, record in day games. strike outs, era, wins, nah those dont work for me.
I think there’s no doubt that yards and TD’s are hugely important stats for a QB. But when you are turning the ball over twice a game, it’s like the pitcher that has 10K’s and 8 walks in a game. He’s not elite, the guy with 10K’s and 1 walk is.
ha i didnt wanna do any legwork, so i just used passer rating.. those stats are what make passer rating up
so your admittedly lazy fact finding is what you are basing your argument off of?
That’s a good point actually. I like it.
What is? The
The whole fair weather/dome versus playing in New England/New York. It’s valid.
Its absolutely valid and a point rarely made. That’s where I give Tom tons of credit. How anyone can compare eli in giants stadium in cold weather (where it was always notoriously absurdly hard to throw) vs a Matt Ryan who plays on perfect temperature with no wind and precipitation is ridiculous. My main argument with him and rivers was always that. Yes rivers has better stats but be chokes away bid games and he plays in nice weather all year. Would we be having a different argument if that trade never went through since eli would probably have better stats than riversif the teams were reversed?
I’m with you.
Silly comparison. But what was Eli supposed to say? He was complimentary of Brady and showed confidence in himself. Would you want him to say, “No way, he’s great and I suck?”
I think a good response would be “Hey I’m learning each year but let’s be honest, I’ve got a long way to go to reach the level Brady (or my brother) are at. But I’d never tell Peyton that.”
exactly, the guy was put on the spot, what would you want. nah im not really that good. your qb says only 17 points plax, come on. ours says he thinks he is a top qb.
Or maybe just say “I’m trying to get better all the time” and just leave it at that. As soon as he answered directly he lost. All this proves is that he’s dumber than Tom Brady.
Great point.
he doesnt promise things he cant follow through on
Hey G, what howigit.com’s record for comments on a single article? As I have it, this comment makes it 87 on this article.
Was wondering the same thing. This site is going to explode.
we have gotten over 100 before, i think its 130 somehting
The two most important aspects of being a QB are decision making and accuracy.
Hes not particularly accurate – last year he was 9th but he usually hovers around in the lower half of the league.
And I contend hes one of hte worst decision makers in the league. Guy gave up 25 interceptions. He was only sacked 16 times. Its not because he was being rushed that he was making poor decisions. It seems he had plenty of time to throw the ball hes just a bonehead.
I guess you must have had plenty of video research to support that huh Matt? “im going to make an assumption based on a fake stat that I made up or want to assume because I don’t like the guy. Oh and also even though he was 9th in the league in accuracy I’m going to disregard that stat because it doesn’t work for my stupid assumptions.” Maybe he was forcing throws deep downfield on third and long rather than taking a sack while he is being chased from the pocket. Do research before making dumb assumptions.
pwned
neither one can even hold Chad Henne’s jock, so really this argument is much ado about nothing